Come back home I have

[suzmary]

Hello. Common sense should tell this newbie to sit quiet and stay out of this topic, or thread, but....

I'm not sure who's comment this was (there's been so many), but " I can't imagine what the newcomers are thinking as they read your postings in this thread. Many of them start out by thanking ISGB for existing and for having this forum, with its many contributors, and now they are getting blasted. Why?" While I don't feel entirely like we're "getting blasted", I do feel like responding very briefly to this:

I' very new, and haven't made much in the way of "good" beads yet, but I've received a lot of help here along my trials, and I have always felt welcomed by and inspired by all of the folks here, new, old, or in the middle, and I wouldn't let a rather long heated debate such as this deter me from staying here. I do, however, feel like I'm back home as a kid again, with all of us 9 children fighting, arguing, having "differences of opinion" about something; frustrating always to all involved, Mom & Dad who had to listen to us & sort it out, each of us who felt we were right, or some of us just trying to get our opinions heard, one or two just quietly taking it all in, hoping they weren't going to be grouped with the rest when Mom invariably said "knock it off all of you or I'll bang your heads together!"

Do I think, as a newbie, I should let a post like this stop me from purchasing from a vendor, or keep me away from this forum? Absolutely not! Do I think someone (Mom) should "bang all our heads together?" Absolutely not!

I have often felt that, being out here in the sticks and not having any support system in my life that could even remotely understand this glass addiction that I've acquired, I have "come back home" or "been welcomed into the family." How wonderful, I feel, that I can be even a small part of this "family." But, speaking from the experience of a "very big family", every family has its differences, opinions, styles, finances, how our kids get raised, we take liberties with each other as part of "the family" that we would not otherwise take in general, we voice opinions in a family setting that are truer than perhaps we would share in general or regular societal settings, and we emote more freely "with our family", be it gladness, sadness, anger, or joy, than we would otherwise, because, and entirely because, "we're family!"

I always wondered what a small family was like, as my immediate family, with spouses, kids, more kids, kids having kids, etc., would be like. I'll never know, and I think I subconsciously try to surround myself with what I know. A big, caring, usually kind, sometimes disagreeable, sometimes angry, always caring, family.

I personally don't mind a little heat, or heated debate, hey, I'm Irish, we're hard wired for heated debate (or is that our propensity to like Guinness, I can never remember), nor do I mind when someone reaches out for support, or shares an idea that does not "conform to the norm" or takes new shapes and directions because of thoughts from many varied personalities within "the family." I have been helped along, bolstered when I've thought this wasn't for me, cheered when someone has succeeded (sp?), felt the pain of loss, the anger of injustice, or the sorrow of despair, financial hardship, or horrible sales environment. I have also learned volumes: about sales, about customers, about technical things I never thought of that would have lead, I'm sure, to the ruination of my house, maybe even my neighborhood, that people unknown to me six months ago would be caring enough, let alone willing, to help me in my passions, or inspire me, that EDP is cool but tough to work with, that people got burned in a bulk buy recently, that some folks have suffered "glass lickers" at shows. I've laughed, and cried, all as part of this new "family" I've found.

I value everyone's opinion, maybe I don't agree, more often than not I can't offer up a better one, but I learn from every post I read. I furthermore WANT to learn from every post I read. I think I learn more about people's nature here, the fact that their achievements seem attainable when I read that they too struggle, have difficulties with finances, have pet problems, family struggles, and when they differ of opinion. I'M GLAD WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT! Being the same is no fun, and if we were all the same, say made the same beads, well there wouldn't be any need of a forum to go to talk about the different ideas, techniques, creativity that makes us all, well, "WHO WE ARE."

Wow, that was a lot of stuff for a "newbie" who should have listend to common sense and let the "elders" handle this one. I just wanted everyone to know that I feel welcomed here, I can "change the channel" or pick a new post to read if I don't like it, but sure am glad to be "part of the family", even if the family is not perfect! Big or small, they never are! Thank goodness!

My very long 2 cents worth! (gee, I think I have taken over as most long-winded poster, sorry Margi, I think you've been bumped!) [img]/forum/ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

[Elise]

Pam,
The "elder statesmen" I was thinking of are you, Schermo, Ofilia. (Hope you're not offended- I did say you were neither elderly nor male But, at the risk of embarrassing you, I think you all have a gift for gently steering things in a positive and constructive direction. i know I've made some gaffs, and really apprciate that they have been corrected gently and with good humour. And, I have learned from you all- not only about glass, but about dealing with potentially stressful situations gracefully and with tact.

One of the important lessons I've learned in recent years is to express appreciation as freely as criticism. (which is why I gush...and also, actually take personal offense when the leadership decisions of the guild are attacked)- because I've been involved in a lot of organizations, and a few guilds- and seldom seen them run so well.

i really do hope Jan hangs around, and that some of our other lost members wander back.

remember folks- If you are inflamed when writing a post- sleep on it. You can always hit send in the morning!
Aloha,
Elise

[PamDugger]

Hi Elise, Thank you for the elder statesman title, however the ones I was thinking of have been at beadmaking even longer than my 15 years, and I wish they were still posting here. They have so much knowledge to share, but I suppose they are afraid of offending people or making people mad, or just don't have the time or inclination to deal with the turmoil that develops from time to time. I, like Jan, wish to see some of them post again.

I love you all and really enjoy reading the threads that are of interest to me - although I will admit a few of them I never click on. We just all need to respect each other's opinions, even if we don't agree with them.
Pam

[Vince]

I would not worry too much about Jan hanging around. He said he would. Besides, I happen to know that Jan has hung around some people where he must have needed to develop a quite thick skin and I doubt that he is either easily offended or frightened off. I think we are fortunate to have him available should any questions come up about the Czech glass that he distributes.

I'm personally glad to see anyone contribute to any subject on this Forum, whether they consider themselves to be newly involved or an old hand. It is only by the interchange of different ideas that we make progress toward anything, even if one has disagreements with some of those ideas. There are ways of continuing civil discourse without either becoming excessively abrasive or far too personal, and there are certainly ways of absorbing the message without assuming that it is a mean-spirited personal attack on one's fragile psyche. In the vast majority of the cases no offense was ever intended and the reader is actually made of sterner stuff than they might think. Sometimes it is wise to let things settle in one's mind a bit before directly connecting the keyboard to one's emotions. If it was more than a passing flash of feeling, it will still be there a few hours later, and then a more measured response can be crafted.

As I said earlier, if some thread or post is not to my taste, I know where the mouse button is, and I can get on with my life.

I think the occasional non-glass related topic is healthy, and usually quite a bit of fun. I wouldn't change it for the world, even if I don't join in on some of them. People have varying verbal and written skills, and some have larger vocabularies than others. This all shows up in the various threads and gives insight into personalities. It is one way we come to know the members of our community long before we meet them in person. Quite often there are surprises when we finally do meet them, but even so, the prior etherial contact gives us a basis for continued conversation and exploration of the potential friendship. How can any of that be bad, even if there are the occasional disagreements? Heck, not one of us probably agrees with all our family members all the time, let alone our colleagues, friends and acquaintances. Why should it be different here?

In summary, I vote for the spirited civil interchange on this Forum, from everyone, even those I might never agree with.

Vince

[Jan]

Ya know before I decided to come back I thought long and hard. What if I upset some one and a lot of what ifs, that is primarily why I stopped posting. What I decided was I’m a bead maker to, I pay my membership to be apart of the ISGB and if someone decided that they would not buy glass or take a class from me for speaking my mind and trying to express how I feel about things. Then may be that customer was not meant to be. I believe that most of the members that read this forum understand my post and know what I really mean even though my expression skills are limited. And those that don’t, that's ok to I‘m not afraid anymore. I’m a part of and I am not going to be afraid of loosing a customer. I think the new bead makers have to understand that they are a part of this society as are the experienced bead maker. Neither are more important than the other. So learn, absorb and become a bead maker. Jan

[Soupy]

This is "OT" for this thread, but how is the Czech glass that Jan distributes, different from moretti?

[CindyLouhoo]

Soupy,
We should start a new thread on the glass that Jan has. I personally love it. I find some of the colors are similar to the effetre, but there are some really unique colors, like the denim blue, smoky topaz, grape, capri blue, tourmaline pink....
The clear is my favorite clear to use. Let me see if I have any pics anywhere that I can post of some of these great colors. The glass is not necessarily compatible with effetre, but I use a lot of it together. Jan can address this much better than I can. The glass seems to be stickier, to hold the heat and remain workable longer than the effetre. The rods are generally thicker than the standard effetre rods. Hmmmmmmm....
I'll have to think a little longer but I know I have more to say about it. And I agree with Vince, Jan can, and has stood some abuse. I'm just very glad to have him, and his glass, around. I find that I use it more than any other any more.
Cindy

[MaureenKennedy]

I welcome Jan's thread, in that he acknowledged a real change in ISGB that has been apparent to me for sometime.

When some of our members split off to another forum, I think many of our "Chattier" people left here. As for myself, I rarely post anymore because I usually don't have anything to say that I feel anyone would feel would be interesting. If I have "discovered" a new technique - someone else has already done it and done it better. So I shall try to post more here, but don't be disappointed if you are bored! LOL

[elif_ogan]

hmm.

there have been so many topics raised in this thread; i certainly don't think that i can address them all. however, i can and will share my feelings about this forum and 'what it means to me' - i'll try to keep it succinct.

i've been making beads for four years. longevity does not imply skill; i don't consider myself to be an expert, and i will continue to learn and improve until i die. as a teacher (seed beading & wire working, not glass) i understand the enthusiasm that accompanies a newly acquired skill, and the pleasure received from the exchange of information. i also understand the frustration inherent in answering the same question dozens of times, and the impatience when OT conversation seems to take precedence over glass-related talk.

i like this forum precisely because it *is* less 'fluffy' than WC. there may be less posts on ISGB, and it may not be as easy to post pictures here (i can't, as i still don't have a personal website, and won't pay for picture hosting), but i am really grateful that i don't have to be distracted by someone's four-page sig. file or animated avatar. (i used to love the text-based infocom games - no pictures, just words. perhaps that experience has influenced my choice in forums.) there are quite a few lovely, talented, generous people at WC, and i don't mean to bash the forum as a whole. both ISGB and WC are wonderful resources, and i like to visit both. but where do i feel at home? here.

so why don't i post more often? several reasons. mostly because i don't enjoy writing off the cuff. it often takes a while to evaluate my thoughts and feelings, and longer to put them into words. i can't escape the fact that my words may outlast my feelings on any given subject. i do have a good support system at home, and good friends to talk to about my work, so i don't often suffer from a sense of isolation (though my studio is in my house, and i am alone all day). however, i don't have an issue with posts seeking support or discussing inspiration. that's why an 'other topic' category exists, yes? but i don't put virtual pen to virtual paper lightly. i don't feel the need to post out of boredom, *and* i am quickly bored with seemingly random posts. i like intelligent discussion (whether about glass or animal friends), and that is why i come to ISGB.

i became a member to support this fine organization, to give something back to an important resource, and to foster a sense of pride in myself and my work. in one sense, being a member only means that i shelled out cash for a 'name'. in another sense, it means that i am striving for excellence in my work, that i am continually learning about this art form that i've chosen, and that i choose to think of myself as 'professional'. i'll be going to the gathering this summer as a social resource, yes, but mostly to learn more about glass. (and i'll be fresh from a large week-long pagan festival in the woods, so the 'material world' will be even weirder to me than it already is.) i look forward to meeting all of you fine, fine people, and having lively, intelligent discussions.

and i wholeheartedly agree with vince (and i quote): " There are ways of continuing civil discourse without either becoming excessively abrasive or far too personal, and there are certainly ways of absorbing the message without assuming that it is a mean-spirited personal attack on one's fragile psyche. In the vast majority of the cases no offense was ever intended and the reader is actually made of sterner stuff than they might think. Sometimes it is wise to let things settle in one's mind a bit before directly connecting the keyboard to one's emotions. If it was more than a passing flash of feeling, it will still be there a few hours later, and then a more measured response can be crafted."

well said.

i'm proud to be an ISGB member. and even if i don't often participate in discussions, i do visit the forum daily. i don't feel that jan said anything offensive in his posts, and i'm still scratching my head over daffodil deb's response. that doesn't mean that i'm upset or angry with her. it's a forum. people have vastly different views on personal & political topics. we all have glass in common - and i think that was part of jan's point.

that's my story & i'm sticking to it,

elif


p.s. absolutely no offense intended: every time i look at the title of this thread - "come back home i have" - i hear yoda's voice. i can't be the only one..?

[suzmary]

Elif, I agree with all that you said, but especially on the Yoda comment. From the first time I read this thread, I couldn't help but think of, and hear, Yoda's voice saying it.

"Empire has Struck Back many times, It Has." (In our house, anyway! Like 1000 times!)

I think I'll try to make a "Yoda" bead, just for the fun of it. Sage green rod, maybe? Check, I will!

Thanks, Elif, I think some levity is in order on this thread.