Come back home I have

[Jan]

Margi that's one of the points being made. difference of opinions different ways of posting and writing. Dale says what he thinks, I try to be a bit more softer but sometimes it just comes out, it may seem perfectly fine and appropriate to me but not to others. So may be we need to try and understand the other persons post. Men write different then women, Vince is real technical, Ofilla is very expressive and knows all the right words to use and others jump on the band wagon just to protect others or just for the fun of it. I’ve learned allot about everyone who has posted. What they want and feel about the board and the forum, every one who has post has been every passionate about this forum. Some times we just need a wake up to what we really have. Lots of dedicated and passionate members. Jan

[Schermo]

I'm glad I have the ISGB forum as a resource, and also as a place to get to know a little bit about other beadmakers. Over the years, I've noticed the tendancy in every discussion group I've been a part of, that people start to get into a lot of "We Should"'s and "You Should"'s when the group is going through turmoil. Lots of statements made about what "We" are all about, what this forum means to all of "us". Sometimes on the mark, many times reverberating with only a small part of the community.

The internet is a global community, and there are lots of different kinds of people, with lots of different ways of doing things. Sharing a passion for hot glass doesn't equate to all needing and wanting the same things from a forum like this. But, as Vince points out, we all know where the mouse button is.

I'm frustrated that people's opinions have been taken as personal attacks. The only comments made by Dale (who usually speaks his mind pretty plainly - at times rather too bluntly to be considered polite, but at least you know where you stand with him) were to state how he feels. And, he's entitled to his opinion. He didn't use the words "you" or "should". He just said how he feels, and last time I looked, no one has made him THE BOSS OF ME! (or anyone else), so why stress out about it? Like the opportunity to scroll past what you don't want to read, you can just ignore what he says if you don't agree.

Or, write him an email,privately, and express how his comments made you feel, if something he said hit a personal note.

I think when things start to get personal (or taken personally) on the boards, is when the rest of the community start to feel "yucky", as Dana so eloquently stated. The effect of these public battles is to get people into a loyalty skirmish, and that divides the community. Why even go there?

I just think that all that energy could be better channeled into a good, honest struggle with a gather of hot glass, some graphite and a mandrel.

Schermo

[daffodildeb]

Jan, I have to admit to being both frustrated and angry at the thread you have started. Frustrated because I don't understand WHY you have posted so venomously. You appear to be wanting to hurt people. Why? Just because they mention things other than glass? Is there someone standing by your computer with a gun, forcing you to read off-topic threads? Are you physically unable to hit the "next" key to get to the next post?

I'm also angry. You're in the business of selling glass, right? And you're intentionally trying to hurt the artists who will potentially buy your products? Count ME out as a customer! I don't see any reason for you to continue to read and/or post in the "other topics" category if you don't want to read about other people's lives, including those who are not in tip-top form right now.

Exactly WHY did you want to stir up trouble? What is your motive? It surely is going to backfire as those of us who have a caring bone in our bodies rally around the people you are so coldly attacking. This IS a difficult way to make a living, and surely you know that. Sometimes bad things happen to the good people who populate ISGB. And they want to share with the only people who can truly understand the hard times they are facing--other artists in the glass community.

If you have something to contribute that will help an artist make better beads in a safer way, then by all means do so. If you have some ideas to encourage new beadmakers, post that, also. I can't imagine what the newcomers are thinking as they read your postings in this thread. Many of them start out by thanking ISGB for existing and for having this forum, with its many contributors, and now they are getting blasted. Why?

My own two cents.

[Ofilia_Cinta]

<<I've learned a lot about everyone who has posted. What they want and feel about the forum and everyone who has a post is passionate has been very passionate about this forum. Sometimes what we need to wake up to what we really have. Lots of dedicated and passionate members>>- Jan

WELL SAID , Jan!! Bravo! Thank you for that remark . Perhaps you DO need to post more often so that we can have the benefit of getting to know you better!

I just don't want us to separate the soul from the art! Lampworking is far more than just "technical" for me.

Dale, please let me explain something quickly for you about the "what is in a name thread". I actually never intended it to be a "thread"! It just happened that way. My purpose in that post was to share what I discovered since I have started teaching and in my most honest opinion, THE most valuable lesson I can share is to 'believe in yourself'! It is such a grand feeling when you can come to terms with your being, and what excites you and motivates you and GIVE this "infection" ( !) to someone else! I'm still learning on many levels, and that is exciting too!

Let me also say that the way the "name" thread has evolved, to me in my opinion, is probably the closest thing to a bunch of artists convening on an initial mutual subject and then letting the hair down, and just enjoying talk and each other's company . I often think why don't we have 'gathering places' (and no, not the "local bar" as we know it today) like the artists of the turn of the century did in Sacre Coeur, or the left bank, or the old beatnik poetic hang outs ! That thread made me feel like we were all sitting around a table, just letting the subjects flow and enjoy each others' company . THAT made me happy. Just enjoy !

I'm glad you started this post, Jan! It's good to be open and express ourselves without being too hurtful. We have the ability to prevent that just as we have the ability to write or not read. Thanks.

Take care.

Ofilia

[Jeri]

Jan has encouraged me to post and not just read. That being said, it is lucky we are in the "other topic" part of the forum since my only comment is - "WOW I never knew they had DNA sexing for PARROTS!" Now I'm off to read "what's in a name". Jeri

[PamDugger]

I lately have tried to stay out of these types of threads as much as possible, but I have to say this. Deb's post is exactly why we don't have some of the other vendors and "elder statesmen" visit us any longer. I have asked many of these people why they don't post on the forum and their answer is, because if they post something someone doesn't agree with they will lose business. And Deb has just validated that opinion. That is exactly why we don't have the really informed opinions from vendors and even famous instructors have told me they read but refuse to post for fear of offending people that may potentially be students.

Just because Jan owns Check Glass does not mean that he shouldn't be able to express his opinion, and also his opinions should not reflect on his wonderful glass. Please, people, let's allow posters to have an opinion that isn't necessarily yours without going off the deep end.
I will be very surprised if Jan posts again and he has a lot to offer this forum. We've lost lots of people that have very specific information that could be really important to us, let's not validate their opinions of this forum.
Pam

[Bea]

hmmmmmmm

I still consider myself a virtual newbie to glass and haven't been here at ISGB all that long....... but have found it to be a mine of good information, feedback and inspiration.........

I used to check in every night but lately with the summer vacation work load, setting up a new work area (still haven't finished yet) and family committments it has been hard to keep up........

I have spent a lot of time over at WC because it is a more visual area (even though it is frustrating to wait for the pages to download IF they do at all) and because the format allows me to keep abreast of threads I am interested in by subscribing to them and being notified via email when a new post is added.

I think that everyone is valuable in their comments and experiences with our medium and I have personally benefitted from the free exchange of information though I am still challenged by the photography side so can't post any pics still...... though it gives me a good feeling when I am able to share a tip when I can with my limited experience in comparison to the other members here...

I feel that there is a strong community bond here and very passionate at times which I like though at times there could be some heated exchanges but I just scroll past them and get to the essence of the issue - so in the respect this is good because the choice is ours as to whether we want to let things affect us or just move on to read other less inciting posts........

I think it's a matter of choice to allow oneself to be upset or just ignore the irritation which brings out negative vibes and move on to another thread/post and if there is none that excites, inspires...... there are other things one can use the time for....

I still enjoy popping in here and have subscribed as a member because I believe in supporting this forum and the art form which is our common interest regardless of the other occasional issues that may arise.

It is the differences in the personalities and experiences that makes it all so interesting - and we are all at different levels so it makes sense that what is easy to others can be a true trial and tribulation to others.

It is the overall sharing and caring for each other that will help those open to accept all these differences in opinions and differences and help us resolve problems and think outside the square........

my 2 cents worth
Bea

We make our own choices and form our own opinions through the experiences and sharing of others.

[Debby_Weaver]

Well, Jan,

I have never used Check Glass but this won't keep me from trying it in the future. You certainly have a right to your opinion - as does everyone else.

On the other hand - you sure have pulled some of the folks out of the wood work! Wonder what we need to do to pull out some of the other ones! 27 new posts on here since I looked at the forum yesterday afternoon! WOW!!!!

I do think a number of folks made a good point or two - let's not loose sight of those:

1. Every one who registers has a right to post. Don't read what does not interest you.
2. This part of the forum - "Other Topics" - is for just that - things other then beadmaking. If you don't enjoying being part of those discussions, don't look!
3. People grow in knowlegde and experience. You may feel you have out grown this forum or that your life path is going a different route or whatever, so you do not feel "at home" here. That's okay.
4. We sure miss a good many of the folks that were on here a lot a few years ago - if you are particularly interested in what they are doing or where they are calling "home" - go there.

I really like this forum for a lot of reasons - there are a good many very giving folks here. Some people feel real comfortable posting - some do not. If you checked with Greg, you might be surprised how many hits this site gets!!! Maybe we are geared more for the beginning beadmaker - but isn't that part of our mission. I have been making beads for 7 years and still learn lots from this site.

So, folks - WELCOME to the ISGB forum. I'm glad you are here!
Debby

[margi]

Schermo--Before I go to bed this morning, I just want to clarify one thing that I thought I had conveyed pretty clearly in my earlier post. You said in your post that you are "frustrated that people's opinions have been taken as personal attacks...The only comments made by Dale...were to state how he feels..."

Well, how he felt led him to state: "I dont care to know your pets ills, I have parrot, tortoise, dog and tropical fish to care for and dont have time for your pets too...I'm sorry if my responses upsets anybody, but this is not your shrinks office or your veterinarians office, or a think tank on what a "name" means..."

Perhaps I should have responded to him privately, or should be responding to you in a private mail, but since all the other dirty laundry has been aired through the course of something like 28 posts in this thread by now, I am choosing to comment one more time right here. It was me who posted a couple of days ago, in the appropriate place, or so I thought--the "Other Topics" section--that my wolf had been hit by a truck and that I was deeply worried and seeking some support, for both her and me. And it was Ofilia who started the thread on what a "name" means. So these comments were indeed directed to specific people, and he did not need to use our names to get his "feelings" across.

Ofilia, in her usual forgiving and sometimes charmingly almost "naive" way, has chosen to take the negative input and try to transmute it into something postive. I however, who am on constant vigil right now with my very wounded canine partner, who is the closest thing that I have to a spouse, parent, sibling or child, feel deeply emotionally wounded myself, and am unable to generalize a comment that was obviously specifically directed at my own post. Supposing that any of you had posted that one of your children had been hit by a truck, and you were not sure yet if he/she was going to survive, and one of our members had responded with, "I don't care to know about your child's ills. I have children of my own, and don't have time for your's too." How would you yourself feel?

It's clear that one must develop a thick skin to hang around here consistently--or simply leave when the going gets too tough. I regret very much now that I chose to share my own personal agony about LadyWolf's accident, when it obviously didn't contribute anything to our knowledge about beadmaking, especially not anything NEW. So why DON'T we start a new section for "totally extraneous, absurdly ridiculous, totally off-topic stupid issues" (like injured pets.) Then we who obviously have our heads up our you-know-whats will have a place to post with impunity.

Obviously, I would not be writing in this fashion if I was not in a state of shock and horror over what has happened with my beloved Ladywolf this week. But I certainly fail to see the value of hitting someone when she's really down, unless in some way, it provides the poster with some kind of perverse pleasure.

Margi--sorry that I am too caught up in my own process right now to address the "larger" issues that have been raised here

[PamDugger]

Hi Margi, Let me just start by saying that I am very sorry to hear about your pet. I tend to like animals much more than I do a lot of people, and have many pets of my own, so I certainly understand what you are going through. However, I do think you are dwelling on the negative posted by one person, rather than focusing on the positive, which is a whole lot of people, your friends, that do care.
Pam