Who wants to talk torches?

[knwadsworth]

So, I'm home from the Gathering and dreaming of a new torch. In fact, I went to the Gathering ready to buy a new torch, but GTT was a little coy with me and didn't show up, so.... Here I am.

I was amazed with the precision you can get on the center fire of a Phantom, and I got to test-drive the Lynx at open torch (basically the same as the center of the Phantom). So, I know the Phantom is more torch than I need, and I know the Lynx will work nicely on my 15 lpm concentrator. What I don't know is anything much about the torches in between; the Cheetah and the new Scorpion.

Will these work with my concentrator? Will they work if I add another concentrator to the mix? Will they perform like the Lynx only better? How better? Will they make me feel happy and fulfilled?!?

Obviously I'll be calling GTT to quiz them on all this, but I'd love to hear about the experiences of real-world users of these torches. Or, does anyone want to talk me in to another torch, instead of GTT? I'm always open to learning more! (I'd be upgrading from a Minor, BTW.)

Thanks for any info!

Katherine

[Nina"Sam"Hibler]

Have a Cricket- love it! It will run on a 5 lpm my students run theirs on 10 lpm.

Have a Scorpion- love it (I run on tanked) but GTT says it will run on a 15. I personally think for me the Scorpion is as good as my Phantom and it uses less O2 to get the job done.
Most of you know what kind of beads I make. From tiny to sculptural both the Cricket and the Scorpion perform great. Love the pin point flame you can get.
I also do some venetian figures and large murrinni. I'm very happy with the Scorpion for the murrinni when they start getting bigger and bigger as I work.
That is MHO on those torches
Sam
Somebody who works on a concentrator with these torches help Katherine out!
I can't really comment on the concentrator question because I am on tanked.

[PamDugger]

Katherine, I have the Scorpion, upgraded (or sidegraded or downgraded, depending on your definition) and I love it. Unfortunately I haven't had much opportunity to play with it very much lately, but I can give you this information: The flame from the Scorpion is larger than the Cheetah. The ambient air around the torch flame is hotter than the Cheetah as it does not have that second oxygen to more focus the heat. However, I like having that as many of my beads are huge and the warmer air surrounding the flame is good for preventing cracking. It is easier to vary the flame from the Cricket centerfire to the larger outside ring, getting many, many variations on flame chemistry. I am running mine on the OG20 and it runs great, full tilt as far as I can tell. I think the OG20 gives me something like 15 lpm the way I have it set.

[RobertS]

I've got a Cricket and a Phantom. Both are great torches and I'm a very solid GTT customer. When I bought the Phantom I wasn't absolutely sure that I needed a torch that size, but I've grown into it and am considering moving up another step. That outer ring doesn't get used all of the time, but when you need the extra heat is sure is great to have it available. I've got the 4-stud model with a foot pedal so it's there in a heartbeat. I use tanks only on the Phantom, concentrator on the Cricket.

Robert

[Debby_Weaver]

Well, can't comment on the torches - I use a Nortel Mid-Range with a top mounted Minor - use O2 bottle and propane. But as I was reading this I was also wondering if the type of glass you mostly used also had something to do with which torch worked best for you. ??????????

Just something else to think about.
Debby

[knwadsworth]

Wow, thanks for all the info, folks! That's a wide range of use and experience, and it helps a lot.

Debby, you're certainly correct, I'm sure many of the answers would be very different if we were talking hard glass. I'm a softy, of course, and it looks like more of the responses here are from folks working soft glass (although also BIG). Except maybe Robert--Are you working hard glass with your setup, Robert? Is that part of wanting a step up from the Phantom, or do you want to move bigger even for larger soft glass work?

I'm liking what I'm hearing about the Cricket as the center fire of the Scorpion. Pam & Sam (and anyone else who wants to chime in!), can you compare that Cricket flame to a Minor for me?

What I loved about the Lynx on my test drive was how sharp you could get that small flame when you wanted it, rather than having the large area of hot air around the flame like you get with a minor (and like Pam describes with the outer fire of the Scorpion). Does the Cricket/Cricket center fire give you that kind of pin-point flame when you want it? And when you use the Cricket with a larger flame, does it give you a similar performance to a Minor, in terms of how hot/how fast you can work on general beadmaking tasks?

One other question for you, Pam: How is your Scorpion upgraded/sidegraded/downgraded from the regular model? Just curious!

Katherine

[PamDugger]

Okay, Katherine, not quite understanding the question, but..............I will try to give you my answer, maybe. The Scorpion does not have the dual oxy input that most of the GTT torches have. So, in that sense, it is a downgrade from a regular GTT torch, such as my Cheetah. It is an upgrade, to me, because it gives me a larger flame and yet does so on less oxygen use. Sidegrade? Because I couldn't decide whether it was an upgrade or downgrade! The overall flame is larger than a Cheetah and gives me the heat I need, even in working boro beads, if that helps.

With regard to the size of the Cricket centerfire, I haven't worked on a Minor in years, so I can only say that I believe it to be about the same size. I believe it is smaller than the Lynx, if that helps you any. I think the Phantom, maybe, has a Lynx centerfire. I believe you can get the same pinpoint flame as a Lynx, but again, this is from someone who has never worked on a Lynx either.

[Hayley]

Katherine,

It was great meeting you at the Gathering!

May I first ask you which 15 lpm concentrator do you have? They are not all created equal.

Secondly, if I may, allow me to share my experiences with some of the torches you asked about, as well as another suggestion.

I used a Bobcat for a while before upgrading to a Barracuda. I has a Cricket for about a couple of months and sold it. I had DeVilbiss 5 lpm oxycon and got two M15 oxycons when I purchased the Cuda. Whenever my sister torched at the same time, she used one of the M15 for the Bobcat and I was left with only one.

Two years ago right after purchasing th M15s, I tried a Cheetah with a Regalia and was amazed how hot that torch was on only one 10 lpm/7psi oxycon. If I had tried it prior to the M15s, I would have made a different decision.

Two weeks ago, I tried a Cuda with a Regalia and as expected, it was HOTTER than two M15s together. You see, I never even considered the Regalia originally for I never expected that one 10lpm/7psi machine would be better than two M15s which equaled to 14lpm/15psi (I dialed each to 7lpm)! (BTW, I won one at the Live Auction and have been using it all weekend!)

I sold the Cricket because it was not as hot as the Bobcat on a M15 (it performs BETTER than a Bobcat when used with a 5lpm machine however).

Why the long winded explanation on oxycons while you asked about torches? Because it all depends on your oxygen supply.

First of all, the non-triple-mix GTT torches (Cricket and Bobcat) have carbon buildups especially on oxycons. Dialing the flame to a minimum of 1/4" is critical but unless you are on tanked oxygen, there will likely be carbon buildups.

The Cheetah is a 13-port torch, you may find that it doesn't get as tight a pin-point flame as you like.

I think that for making beads with soda lime glass, most of us never have to open up the outer flame if the center fire of our torches are adequate. So if you were to get a Scorpion, you are really going to be using the Cricket majority of the time. . . which is a slight upgrade from a Minor (I teach on a Minor all the time) but if you really want something that will give you a larger flame, I'd go for the Lynx. It's very similar to the Cricket but is able to be dialed to a much larger flame than the Cricket when needed. It also doesn't build up carbon!

If you only have a M15, you will need something more for the Lynx tho. If you have an OG15, then you should be all set.

If you do have a M15 and are willing to get another one, (or if you do have an OG15) may I recommend the Barracuda? Its center fire is a Piranha which is a bigger torch than a Cricket. It produces a pin-point flame but also gives you a wider flame than a Lynx. And you can always turn on the outer flame for something truly large - I use that for making murrinis.

I probably confuse you rather than help! lol!

[Vince]

Although they are currently all packed away awaiting the re-establishment of my work area in the new house, I own and have used more than a dozen torches. I would not try to convince anyone to use a specific torch since in my experience it depends on what sort of work one does and which of the various flame techniques one uses regularly. Some torches, such as the GTT series, can have a steeper learning curve because of the extra controls that need to be mastered and some torches more easily produce specific flame chemistry than others. In general we are blessed with a wide range of really fine torches to use from several manufacturers and it is hard to make a bad choice. My advice is to go buy the one that speaks to you and you will most likely be happy with it - after the learning curve of course.

I'm still happier with tanked oxygen than oxygen concentrators for torches of Lynx size and larger, but that isn't to say that one can't get satisfactory performance from a concentrator so long as one is not pushing the capabilities of the torch. For Phantom and larger torches it is tanked oxygen or a really pricey oxygen generator setup all the way.

Vince

[PamDugger]

Hi Hayley, I just want to point out that I haven't had any problem with carbon buildup on my Scorpion. I have heard of a couple of people that have, but it was remedied, I believe, by working farther away from the torch head, as bounce-back heat was cooking the torch and creating the carbon.

And I will agree that flame chemistry is really important, but that you can make almost any torch work for what you want to do, as long as the torch flame is large enough. It just takes learning that torch. I was a BIG Bethlehem fan before getting my Cheetah and had to force myself to work on it for a month before I actually learned how to use it for what I wanted to do.